Talk:Order of Precedence

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There is a note on the page that we have no Lesser Kingdom Officers, but that is incorrect. The link at the bottom of the page will give you a list of them --Wolffauer 13:29, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Greater Officers are those in a Kingdom who act in proxy to the corresponding Society officers. Lesser Officers of State are those positions which have no society supervision and act independently in their kingdoms, yet are not considered greater officers by their Kingdom's tradition. The East considers the Signet, Chatelaine, MoL, and Chancellor Minor as Greater Officers even though they have no Society superiors.

I'll use an example I'm very familiar with. In the East, the Tyger Clerk of the Signet is only a Greater Officer because we say it is. In other kingdoms the Signet's position is either a Lesser Officer of state, Deputy to the Herald's office, or scribal guild-master. The only other kingdom where the Signet is a Greater Officer is Drachenwald. In Æthelmearc, for example, the Sylvan Signet is not a Greater Officer, but a Lesser Officer because the Sylvan Signet does not report to anyone but the crown. In Northshield the Polaris Signet is a Deputy Herald.

In the East the Kingdom Marshal of Fence and the The Captain-General of Archers are Deputies to the Earl Marshal. (while there are Society archery and Society fencing marshals they are deputies themselves of the Society Earl Marshal.) Chancellor of the East Kingdom University is a Deputy to the Minister of A&S. The Accessibility porter is a deputy to the Seneschal. The Kingdom Chamberlain is a Deputy of the Exchequer. By definition they are not Lesser Officers, but Deputy Officers. This is an issue I am very familiar with because a recent Society ruling states that no Deputy officers are allowed to hold badges other than the badge of their supervisory Greater Officer and one of our deputy Seneschals tried to register a badge for her office.

Every officer listed in the Lesser Officers of State category is actually a Deputy Kingdom Officer. --Gregnier 9:59, 18 February 2014. (EST)

Ah ha! Thank you for the additional information. How does that work with EK Law, which lists them as Lesser Officers? --Wolffauer 20:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

After re-reading corpora last night, it seems the Kingdom can choose to make Lesser officers deputies of Greater Officers, which I guess the EK did. "Kingdom Lesser Officers and deputies are created by the Crown according to the needs of the kingdom. These officers may be supervised directly by the Crown, or be placed under the jurisdiction of a Greater Officer, and report accordingly." So, i guess we have Lesser Officers. My understanding has evolved. The "lesser officers" who are deputies, however, still cannot register their independent armory per the College of Arms. ---Gregnier 9:05, 19 February 2014. (EST)